How to Go from PM to VP - My Story

Product Growth Podcast

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How to Go from PM to VP - My Story

I sit down with Brad Schaefer, VP of Product at $1B+ Abrigo. We candidly discuss how we went from our first PM jobs to VP, what actually helped us (no gatekeeping), and how you can do the same

Aakash Gupta

Apr 26, 2025

Transcript

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Today’s Episode

This is the promotion guide I wish I had when I started as a PM 15 years ago.

PM → SPM → Manager → Director → VP. Most people treat it like a ladder.

In this episode, we break it down like a map: covering the mindset shifts, skills, and momentum needed at every stage, straight from our own (Aakash & Brad Schaefer) journeys.

This episode is special—it’s another in-person chat with a VP friend of mine.

Here’s what we’re breaking down:

How We Became PMs - 2:55
How to Grow from PM to Senior PM – 07:21
What It Takes to Get Promoted from IC to Manager – 26:51
Path from Manager to Director – 37:40
What Helped Aakash & Brad Reach the VP Level – 48:47

It’s guaranteed to help you level up in your career.

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Some of My Favorite Takeaways

1. Most PMs Plateau at Senior Because They Don’t Realize They’re in the Canyon

You're doing great work, delivering solid features… but you're not seen as strategic. You're not on the radar for leadership. I’ve seen it. I’ve lived it.

And the fix isn't more tickets, it’s more visibility and cross-functional leadership.

Ravi Mehta calls it the “Product Leader Canyon” If you want to escape from it, you’ve got to own more than features, own outcomes. And build a presence beyond your squad.

2. The Best Way To Get Promotions

No one’s going to tap you on the shoulder and say “you’re ready for more.” The best PMs start acting like they’re at the next level before they get the title.

And it reminded me exactly of what Ethan Evans calls The Magic Loop: Nail your current job → Volunteer for a harder one → Prove you think like a leader → Then do it again

Remember, you don’t earn the next level by doing your job. You earn it by doing the job you want, before anyone’s even sure you’re ready.

3. Every Organization Should Build a Career Matrix

Brad uses a tool I wish I had earlier in my career: a Career Matrix. It breaks the PM role into skills, levels, and observable behaviors.

It’s how you turn a vague “you’re not ready yet” into an actionable plan. If you’ve ever felt stuck and didn’t know why, you need one of these.

I myself created one of these at Affirm, and Apollo.io, my last two leadership roles. It’s an unlock. It helps you and your manager see the same picture, clearly.

4. If You’ve This, Getting VP Role Becomes Easier

This is what Brad nailed. At the VP level, character and reputation matter more than raw output.

Are you the one execs call when things get messy? Are you the person other PMs look to for clarity?

If not, sorry to say but you’re not ready for VP role. This is true for me as well: I got promoted when I started acting like a founder inside my team, not when I started asking for one.

5. The Fastest Way to Get Unstuck? Make Your Manager’s Job Easier.

Seriously. Want to get noticed? Start taking things off your manager’s plate.

Lead cross-team initiatives. Handle the chaos before it lands on their desk. I’ve promoted people for this exact reason without even them asking for it.

Because they earned it before I even realized they needed the title.